Ilene Fischer | Director, Writer, Comedian

Ilene is a 20+ year production professional, serving in the roles of writer, producer, and director. She has worked in numerous production capacities including Script Supervisor, Producer & Co-Writer for 3 Alliance's adventure travel series andiamo!. Her work can be seen on PBS where she was a producer on the Emmy-nominated PBS Kids show Fetch! with Ruff Ruffman,  Assistant Director for three seasons of Simply Ming, and  Associate Producer and writer for America’s Ballroom Challenge. In addition, her full-length stage play, Girl Hopping, was produced in 2011, and her short film script, Jilted: A Love Story, was a finalist in the 2012 Pride Films & Plays women’s work competition. Ilene has been on stage as an improv actor, comedian, and storyteller. Her feature script Shiva is currently in pre-production.

Transcript

SPEAKER_03 0:05

Alright, yeah. Are we recording this? We are. Oh, good. Oh, we've been recording? Oh, we got all this on? Oh, yeah. Yeah, we got a promo. We got a promo, definitely. Um, you're mad. A little. Really mad. No, this isn't a little mad, this is mad. I am. I think it's leftover weekend.

SPEAKER_01 0:27

Let's talk about the weekends.

SPEAKER_03 0:29

Where were you this weekend? I was in New York City. Yeah. At the Chain Film Festival where my film was screening.

SPEAKER_01 0:35

Yeah, congrats. Thanks.

SPEAKER_03 0:37

Whatever.

SPEAKER_02 0:38

Yeah. I was also in New York City. Isn't that my turn yet? I'm sorry. You have to be quiet now! That's the worst thing you could ever say.

SPEAKER_01 0:49

Don't talk! Um Hall Pay Productions was um uh filming a film. Yeah. And um, you know, film filmmaking is it's not as easy as people might think. Or yeah, and when you try to do it. I think there were a lot of assumptions. You know what happens when you make assumptions. Make an ass out of you. No. You're just an idiot. You're just an idiot. You should mean a few.

SPEAKER_03 1:18

I did. You wanted me to say that. I did.

SPEAKER_01 1:21

Just say it on an idiot. But you know what? Um, and then the fact we couldn't get the audio working properly. Can we start asking our guests that they have at least some kind of technical podcast experience before they come on?

SPEAKER_03 1:34

I think that would be great because then we wouldn't end up in circumstances where we can't get things. That's right.

SPEAKER_01 1:39

Or we can hire Seth Rigby. Oh my gosh, why don't we hear Seth Rigby? We should just have him on. He should just be on at all times. Yes, yes.

SPEAKER_03 1:49

Specter Gadget was Seth Rigby. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:52

He's pretty awesome. If you haven't worked with him, you better hire him. Yeah, I'm just Seth Rigby. We'll have to like, you know, Instagram. What do you think? Oh yeah, we'll put one of his pictures in. Yeah, and what did they do? They poke you. No, they don't poke. Oh, sorry. They don't poke you is bad.

SPEAKER_03 2:09

I'm not sure what's happening here. I feel uncomfortable. Heggy! Peggy, help me out here.

SPEAKER_01 2:19

You should. No, I'm taking back my poke. It's a tag.

SPEAKER_03 2:25

Tag. Tag. Tag Seth Reb. Yeah, guys. Yeah, yeah. Okay. He's a good D I T and a good continuity guy. Yeah, yeah. He's just good. He's just great.

SPEAKER_01 2:34

Anyways, uh, this is the short of it. Um, I'm telling you. Oh, and I'm Residekick, Michelle. Right. And um, you know, we we love talking about films. We are filmmakers, so the short of it is for filmmakers about filmmakers.

unknown 2:48

What does it say?

SPEAKER_01 2:49

Yeah, for filmmakers about filmmakers. It's right here.

SPEAKER_03 2:53

For filmmakers by filmmakers.

SPEAKER_01 2:55

By filmmakers.

SPEAKER_03 2:56

Queer filmmakers.

SPEAKER_01 2:58

Yeah, and we should put it in.

SPEAKER_03 3:00

We have an echelon that queers are absolutely at the top of the echelon, right? That's who we prefer to interview.

SPEAKER_02 3:07

Or is it buy filmmakers or something?

SPEAKER_03 3:10

Oh, buy? No, no, I'm just doing it. Yeah, I like that. I haven't been introduced yet, so I'll be quick. We don't have any buy filmmakers. That we know of. Well, I mean, I mean, we've had some of they then.

SPEAKER_02 3:25

You know, anyways, in the 90s, buy now, gay later.

SPEAKER_01 3:32

So it it's apparent that on today's podcast that um, well, let's just say there's uh a little bit of the table slanting a certain way. Um but anyways, let's just jump into it because I I I can't I can't keep you I can't I can't. Right. So, anyways, um Eileen Fisher. The voice, the voice from nowhere is now scene. So I I'm gonna do kind of an introduction. So Eileen and I kind of grew up in what we used to refer to as the plantation. Um we were young. Um, we were spat on, we were slapped, we were we worked in the fields. We worked we did, we did, sun to sun. Yeah. It was every once in a while they would let us in the studio.

SPEAKER_03 4:31

Wow.

SPEAKER_01 4:32

And then it was like, yeah, no.

SPEAKER_03 4:34

To like wash the floors or something, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 4:36

Pretty much, pretty much. But um, I have known um Eileen, my gosh, over 30 years. Wow. Um, she's an extraordinary.

SPEAKER_03 4:46

You must have been like five when you met. Yeah. I mean, that's exactly it.

SPEAKER_01 4:50

Yeah. Yeah, we know you're 28. Anyways. Um labor laws weren't in effect yet, that's how it was a plantation. What can you do? But um, she's an incre what I do know and can say is that you are an incredible writer, thank you, producer, director, actor. Oh, do you remember when we what was that comedic um that comedy show that Deborah Ferrar Parkman worked on? Um I was uh uh the the world according to the world according to us.

SPEAKER_02 5:25

I could not get a job on that show.

SPEAKER_01 5:26

You did not?

SPEAKER_02 5:28

I tried.

SPEAKER_01 5:28

I think I was too funny. Was it because you were gay? It was because you were gay. It was because of the who was not gay.

SPEAKER_02 5:36

I'm whispering. Okay. Well, we don't have to say was it Tootie? It rhymed with Tootie. Your first name rhymed with Tootie.

unknown 5:44

Tootie?

SPEAKER_01 5:45

Or Tootie.

SPEAKER_04 5:46

Tootie.

SPEAKER_01 5:47

I got it. I think she was afraid of her afraid of her gayness. Yeah, maybe. Um yeah, no, I tried. I threw myself in that case so many times. I thought I you weren't on set.

SPEAKER_02 5:59

No, sorry, we need to rewind and start. Yeah, you're assumed I worked on that show because of who I am. Yeah, you didn't. I never I couldn't get in. I know. There's a lot of things that should have been.

SPEAKER_03 6:10

Are you in the credits?

unknown 6:11

Probably.

SPEAKER_02 6:12

Only if I did Chiron. I didn't think I did Chiron back then. So yeah, no, I I could not get in.

SPEAKER_01 6:19

Well, that's unfortunate. So the short of us was um kind of uh kind of my whole career, right? It was get in. Um not the short of us, the world according to us, was the it was kind of groundbreaking when you think about it.

SPEAKER_03 6:35

Um they created a comedy show written by women starring Whoa, whoa, whoa, women aren't funny. Duh.

SPEAKER_01 6:47

Duh.

SPEAKER_03 6:51

JK.

SPEAKER_01 6:54

I I don't know where to go from here. I don't I don't know where to go from here.

SPEAKER_03 6:57

I apologize. Women are hilarious. Women are more funny than men.

SPEAKER_01 7:01

Can I just say for a second, um, so our producer's not here being right.

SPEAKER_03 7:05

So we're all we're off the handle.

SPEAKER_01 7:07

Like, no.

SPEAKER_02 7:08

Yes, and and so we're careening, I think it might be a careening, yes, we're careening.

SPEAKER_01 7:13

And so we have um Ollie who is not cutting the cameras as much as I know I keep I keep seeing you sneak sneak over and I'm going over there and like cutting because I don't want to call you out, but damn it, Ollie, do your job.

unknown 7:27

I'm sorry.

SPEAKER_01 7:28

He's so busy talking about it. Don't pay attention to us.

SPEAKER_03 7:31

He's busy laughing at the funny women. Yes, correct. Going, oh my god, I didn't know women were funny, right? Whoa, mind blown. It explodes.

SPEAKER_01 7:41

Anyways, welcome to the show. Thanks so much. Um, but out of all your talents, what what is the one that you say like brings you joy, brings you peace? What makes you happy?

SPEAKER_02 7:56

I would have to say at this point it's writing. It used to be performing, um, which is still every now and then someone will coax me back onto stage to do stand-up, which is okay. But I've really um I've written plays, I've written screenplays, I've adapted screenplays to stage plays. Um, and that's really where the the joy is for me when I'm like just in it and and everybody's talking, and I'm just like, you know, just typing what they're saying, and and and I, you know, I'll get to a point where someone someone in here will deliver a line and I will actually laugh or I will get weepy. And then I will stop. I'm like, well, I don't know where to go from here. And everyone in my head is like, they're weak.

unknown 8:47

Where did you go?

SPEAKER_02 8:48

And they just disappear. So I have a snack and I wait for them to come back, and usually they do as I'm falling asleep. Oh yeah. Uh, but that really is, I think for me, the greatest thing is is is writing dialogue in particular. I very much enjoy. And I find that when I get towards the end of something, I find that I, you know, it's a forever process. But like when I'm getting to, okay, here's here's the last line, here's the last scene, that I start to slow down because I know once I've completed that first draft, it's really no longer mine. Wow. Because then it's like, now I gotta get feedback on it. Now I gotta do a staged reading. Now you know, and one of these days, now I gotta get it produced, you know, which is a great problem to have. Yeah. But it's that feeling of here they are, you know, and people, this character, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah you need to, and I'm like, well, you're right. Okay. Goodbye, my babies, you know, my beautiful creations. I gotta fix you now. Um, but that that being in that uh space of that world, you know, in my head, and everything, whenever, especially when stuff's really clear, it's just it's it's my favorite thing. It's my favorite thing. And I'm moving into, I think, writing prose. Like um, I'm interested in essay and memoir writing. Nice. So that might be a new chapter. That's awesome. Yeah, we'll see where that we'll see how that goes. It's been an interesting life. I think I think someone might find it hilarious and tragic.

SPEAKER_03 10:34

Yeah. Well, I I didn't know that you did stand-up. Why did no one tell me this? I I don't know. Maybe it was on the sheet that she was.

SPEAKER_01 10:41

Oh, yeah, we don't have the sheet.

SPEAKER_03 10:43

No, I mean, I never look at the sheet.

SPEAKER_02 10:45

I have a big I did improv back in the I ran an improv troupe in Boston in the 90s called Renegade Duck.

SPEAKER_03 10:55

Oh my gosh, that's awesome.

SPEAKER_02 10:56

And uh and we we had a long, we had about a seven-year run and performed pretty regularly. And improv was so different then. And there were a handful of troops in town, and there was lots of co-mingling and politics and drama. Um but we we did some really, really good work, and we went to some festivals and we did musical improv and we did long form improv, and then we also you know did dumb, stupid games, which are hilarious.

SPEAKER_03 11:27

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 11:28

Um, so that was really I I it was a good time.

SPEAKER_01 11:34

Let's do an improv right now. Okay. Set us up. Go ahead.

unknown 11:37

Oh god.

SPEAKER_01 11:38

Come on, we can do this. I can't. Yeah, you can improv. We're gonna do it.

SPEAKER_02 11:41

That's not something that I can do. It's the short of it. It's uh right. Yeah. Well, do you wanna play? You wanna play an improv game? You wanna sure?

SPEAKER_01 11:48

Let's let's do an improv class. You know, it's funny.

SPEAKER_02 11:50

Someone asked me to teach an improv class, which I'm gonna do at the end of October, and I haven't thought about it.

SPEAKER_03 11:56

Nice. This was this is like your prep. Have you written a screenplay about improv in Boston in the 90s? I have not. Because that seems like it would be really good.

SPEAKER_01 12:06

It would be good. And you're not a Bostonian.

SPEAKER_02 12:11

No, I'm I'm I'm a child of the of the world. I've lived in a lot of places.

SPEAKER_01 12:16

But was it Chicago?

SPEAKER_02 12:17

Chicago originally. Yeah. And then Miami.

SPEAKER_03 12:20

Oh, okay. I'm back to Chicago. Yeah. Miami. What did you do in Miami? Were you a were you a cop? I was a showgirl.

SPEAKER_02 12:31

Um yes, I was all of that. I was a cop and a showgirl. And a showgirl. I was an undercover showgirl. Posed as a cop. Oh, I love that.

SPEAKER_01 12:44

Oh my goodness, where are we going? I don't know. So, you know, I I've only known you kind of like in the TV world, but always appreciated just your your smart asssery overheadsets. Natural, natural talent or whatever. And we and we did have a a good time until, you know, um y'all messed it all up. Yeah. Um, anyways, but um, but one of the things I always appreciated about you is that you were tough, right? And it but that's an that's a good thing because we were young, because um we were female. And um you aren't anymore though. And people didn't like to take us seriously, no, you know, and my mom, who you know, I I'm not sure where this episode lands, but she's also gonna be on the podcast, or maybe you haven't seen her yet, and you can go back and watch her. But um, she also had a really tough time as a woman. And I wondered, does that translate in your performing and your writing and other areas of your life?

SPEAKER_02 13:58

You know, I lived in LA for a while trying, I because I wanted to be a sitcom writer.

SPEAKER_03 14:02

Oh, nice.

SPEAKER_02 14:03

And so again, this is early, late 90s, early 2000s, and bad. So this was the network television, it was still a goal. Cable television was just beginning to get into scripted stuff. Yeah, that's right. Young people, yeah. And and nobody cared about your original content. No, nobody. You had to write a spec script, which was a script for an existing TV show. And I wrote some damn fine script specs. Yeah. Um I wrote see if I remember, I wrote a Frasier. Wow! Nothing had ever got to air, right? No, I know that's I wrote an episode of Fraser, I wrote an episode of Dharma and Greg. Oh, I wrote a King of the Hills spec. Oh, King of the Hill. And then I wrote um a Scrubs. Oh, yeah. And this episode of Scrubs got me so close to uh getting an agent and getting because you had to, there was a hierarchy and you had to have an agent. And as a writer, to get an agent, the agent it's not actors, you know, you could just look at headshots.

SPEAKER_01 15:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 15:08

But with writers, you have to invest time. And usually the assistants read the scripts first. But to even get read by an agent takes a whole village of networking for someone to say to their agent, read this person. And then it's like, and now you're my competition. Yeah. So it's it's messed up. Yeah. And I, you know, I was thinking about this actually on the drive up that one of the things I never really thought about was the misogyny, because I always took it as, oh, I'm not good enough. And then like I'd watch, I'd watch TV.

unknown 15:48

Right.

SPEAKER_03 15:49

And you're like, wait, my stuff's way better than this.

SPEAKER_01 15:51

My scrubs are. You know where you went wrong. You should have done a spec for the Cosby show. That's where you went wrong. That should, that should, you should have done that. And you know.

SPEAKER_02 16:01

You know, it's funny because the Cosby could give my age my old age away. The Cosby show was on when I was in college. Yep. And in one of my classes, we had to write a spec script. I wrote an episode of Kate and Alley. Oh, Kate and Alley. That was the because they were in some. But I wasn't out. But yeah, yeah, it was. Yeah. So I did write a Kate and Alley. But that was my first spec ever in the 80s. But I always took it as oh, I'm not talented enough, I'm not good enough. And it, I think, without sounding like too much of a jerk, I wasn't connected enough and I wasn't male enough. Yeah. And there have been many times where I have thought, if I was a dude, this would be playing out. First of all, I'd still be into chicks, so the most important thing.

SPEAKER_03 16:52

The most important thing. Right, right, right.

SPEAKER_02 16:53

I'd probably be getting it more. Yeah, yeah. But sorry. What's the rating on this? But if if if you know, especially in doing stand-up too. I I didn't do stand-up for very long because I just, it's just gross. Um queer stand-up, I did a little bit, and that was all right. I'm gonna I'm gonna detour. So again, I keep going back in history because that's when when I was young and all of this was new. And I did when the duck used to perform at um the Chinese restaurant at Harvard Square. It's still in the Hong Kong. We used to perform there. The one night they had alternative lifestyles night. Like that's what they called it.

SPEAKER_03 17:34

Alternative lifestyles.

SPEAKER_02 17:36

And I did this routine about why I was a bad lesbian. And it was because I couldn't, it was like the the punch, the setup was I couldn't drive stick. I was allergic, I was allergic to cats. Woo! And at the time I had a really good job, and I'm like, and I made a lot of money. And yeah, no way. Back then, it you were either a social worker or a teacher and living in you know, with eight women and JP with 12 cats. And the funny thing, so I'm doing this routine, I think it's hilarious, and all of the gay men in the audience are slapping their knees and high-fiving each other, and all the lesbians are like Oh, they're mad. They were so mad at me for being funny and laughing at who I was in this world because I didn't fall into the butch feminine. I was just kind of me. You were just you, right? And so, you know, and I remember thinking if I was a dude, I probably wouldn't be making fun of lesbians, but yeah, um You might have been in the 90s. Yeah, yeah, yeah. In the 90s, I think it would have been okay.

unknown 18:42

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 18:43

Um so, but yeah, I I never I it took me a while to see that I wasn't allowed to be that person. And bringing it into control rooms, I I am a smart ass on headsets, and now I direct. So I get to be a smart ass on heads. Yes. I know I make I know that I make the crew angry, but I often make them laugh. So but I used to work with another current operator who I love, gay dude. And he would get pissy and funny and all of these things, and I was like, oh I could say the exact same thing as him in the exact same tone as him. Yeah. And I would be in my manager's office being told that I have an attitude problem and that I'm too harsh. I'm like, we're at a sports network. Wow. And the lesbian is upsetting the dudes. Is that what you're saying to me? Wow. So, and and that would have, you know, like, yeah, you you really you gotta you gotta tone it down, you know, you're upsetting. Like, I I am upsetting them. You know, do you know what I you know the things that I would hear in this control room?

SPEAKER_03 19:49

Yeah, oh, I can't even imagine.

SPEAKER_01 19:50

Yeah, so I I um a few weeks ago um was producing a show at a station, and I have to give a shout out to Janae Um Osterhealth because she's she gave a line that I was in the control room and I thought I was in church. She says, we water our women with sexism and then get mad when bitches bloom. And I was like, Can we get that on t-shirts? Yes, you know what I'm saying? And so sh shout out, Janae. We're gonna we're gonna poke and tag you or whatever we do.

SPEAKER_02 20:29

Poke her without her permission. Okay, 2025.

SPEAKER_01 20:32

I'm gonna tag you on this because I'm giving you absolute permission. Uh I mean giving you absolute credit on that because it just said so much.

SPEAKER_04 20:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 20:41

And I looked around because I stood up. I I literally thought I was just like, Hallelujah! And then people like looking at me. And um, and you know the control. I was the only woman in there, right? And none of the guys got it. Like, no, they didn't get they did not get it. And so let me break it down for you. So, you know, we teach our women, we teach our young girls, I should say, and this is our generation. I'm not talking about now because I don't have any young children now, but in our generation, we were taught to be girls, we were taught to be polite, we were taught to be gentle, we were taught, and then all of a sudden, like the 80s came and Madonna like blew our freaking minds, and then we're doing the lace and with this and then with that, and then everyone's getting upset with us because or upset with Madonna, but anyways, because she's like Cone Bra. Yeah, yeah, Cone Bra.

SPEAKER_03 21:40

I wanted to say Cone Bra, I'm sorry. Yeah, no, it's good, Cone Bra.

SPEAKER_01 21:43

Yeah, I like it. And so it's like um we just you know, it's it's just too freaking hard. And I'm tired of the fight. I don't know about you all. I'm just I'm tired of it. I'm tired of it, you know.

SPEAKER_02 21:56

And it was early in my career that I met your mom. Yeah, and you know, she She was so supportive and so like you, you be you, babe. And, you know, the greatest thing your mother ever said to me that I have carried with me for all of these years that um I've tried to follow was a long time ago. She just goes, babe, because that's where the whole babe thing started. She called me, she goes, babe, it's babe. And she said to me, Be true to your truth. Yeah. And that is has been my philosophy for decades because of Cynthia. Yeah. Wow. You know, and that's so, you know, it's and it's hard to do that when you gotta pay the bills and you gotta feed the dog and you gotta put gas in the car. And it's yeah, and it gets to the point where it's like, okay, I've I've wandered too far from my truth and I I need to come back.

SPEAKER_01 22:44

Which is why we started this podcast, you know. I mean, it it it's we we we wanna be able to talk about great films and great projects, but we also want to talk about the work and how and sometimes just doing the work has nothing to do with the work.

SPEAKER_04 23:03

Yeah, right?

SPEAKER_01 23:04

And um, and I think it's important, like we we were laughing earlier before we started about you know the whole 2D facts of life phenomenon, and I will play the role of 2D if you didn't figure that out. We're gonna fight over which one of us is too.

SPEAKER_03 23:19

Yeah, because I'm gonna be Joe.

SPEAKER_02 23:20

But I kind of get Natalie Vine, I admit it. I admitted it. It's the yin in the room.

SPEAKER_01 23:27

I admit it. That's just it's just so it's just sometimes so hard to just want to get the work done. Yeah, you know, and um even just filming um our film Hold This coming soon to a place near you, um, you know, there are a lot of males on the set, and our DP, who is uh identifies as they them, you know, small in stature and everything, and you know, big gear and just like really, really killing it, but still it's just like and she's just like uh let me do what I have to do, let me do this. And if you don't like it, then we'll do it another way. Um it's the undercutting. I'm sorry, yes, um, it's like cutting off the screen.

SPEAKER_02 24:24

Are you sure? Yeah, are you sure? Yes. Okay, let's do this. Oh, yeah.

unknown 24:27

Really?

SPEAKER_02 24:28

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Go on.

SPEAKER_01 24:29

I'm sorry for underparting me with that, but that was one yeah. No, and it it's I mean, even look at look at Fitchburg State, which we love you, Fitchbrook State, but in the com media department, and I I love your job too. And I want to work there. I could also use a job. I could also use a job. But you know, you look at you look at the professors there, right? And and it's still very heavy white male. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 25:04

It it totally when I started there there was one woman, other woman, and she it uh was the chair, the department chair. So it was really just me. And I I can remember my first class, and there was one, I think one, maybe two females in the class. And I was just like, whoa, where where are all my women? And and it's been like a progression every year to try to lift up those voices that are not the white men of the room and say, okay, other people have things to say that are important, so let's let's figure that out. And I think without even like with Tony in the room, I saw a very different um response from people of color because they're like, oh wow, finally, someone who looks like me. Yes, instead of all these white men. And uh they're like making things that are well like Jane Wake, who will be like who's gonna be in our podcast? I'm so excited, yeah, and won a big award for this film that happened. And uh we just didn't have things like that.

SPEAKER_01 26:06

Uh our film producer wants to say something. What up, homie?

SPEAKER_00 26:10

I just think it's kind of crazy because my entire career I only had two minority professors in four years. And we two. That's ridiculous. That's ridiculous, none of them was film, it was all my genets.

SPEAKER_03 26:23

Yeah, yeah. I don't think I had any black professors. Yeah, I never did when I was an undergrad.

SPEAKER_01 26:29

Or even in graduate. And see, and and and this is part of it, right? Because, you know, I walk into a control room and there's nothing but men there. You know, a young person walks into a classroom and they're the only one. I'm like, it's 2025. But people, I think that young people have to see people doing the work. And to your point, I think that some of these students who I'm all in contact with could see, oh, I can actually do that because I see yeah, I was old. Anyways, but I could see a woman of color doing it. And and and I'd like to think I made a little bit uh I mean, we're doing a student's film because of my being in the room, right? Yeah, um, and and it's it's just so important. I just I don't know why we're getting it, it's why it's still so hard.

SPEAKER_03 27:27

Right. It does it, it makes absolutely no sense. I I don't know. And I I will say hands down that it made a huge difference having you there.

SPEAKER_01 27:34

Thank you.

SPEAKER_03 27:34

Like I feel like so many voices were lifted up that you know I try but to like bring those voices forward, but you know, I I'm not you might this might surprise you, but I'm not black. So oh what can you cut what the heck? I know I'm queer though, like that counts for something. You know I'm black. Yes, we've had that conversation. Yes, I know that. You're a you're a black chip.

SPEAKER_01 28:02

Can I say another thing to to Ollie, our fill-in um um producer? Can you put camera three up for a second? That's whack. What are we looking at? I can't see it. Yeah, it's kind of like um, anyways, I'm gonna go fix it while we're talking. You are? Well, yeah. Why are you upside? Well, because there's like so much space over there. Maybe Peggy can fix it. Peggy? No, no, I no, let's do that. Yeah, so we're gonna go back to us while Ollie goes and fixes the camera. So, um, but anyways, um, so I know that you're freelancing now, right? Right. Um, anything special, anything you're working on? Because I it and also our audience doesn't know that uh for our um for our show, our film rather hold this. Sorry, much better. Oh yeah, that's amazing. Yeah, good job. 20 minutes into the interview. Um you're mean is you're you are more mean to Ollie than you are to V. I know, but that's because next week in now Peggy's walking through the shot. Peggy.

SPEAKER_03 29:16

Oh, she dropped maybe she dropped her inhaler. No, no, no. That's a good thing. Oh, yeah. If you no, if that's not different, I don't know which camera to look at. Are you kidding me? Thank you, Peggy. No, you're amazing, Peggy. Amazing. Thank you, Peggy.

SPEAKER_02 29:28

I just want to say that it's nice to not have to worry about the camera bots around.

SPEAKER_01 29:34

Anyway, so true. What is what is your life now? And I was I was telling, I was telling our audience that um Eileen so graciously came on board to help um our filmmaker, Sada Evans, or Sada Shakur, as she is being identified on the film, um, with her script. Yeah, and I mean we felt the script, and then all of a sudden it came alive, and we were like, yes, and that was because of you. So I just want to publicly thank you for that. Um and yeah, you need to be in a classroom, you need to be doing more than you should be because you're not the kind of person, because a lot of people teach, they think they're teaching, but they're really just telling.

SPEAKER_03 30:20

Like, I'm gonna change this, I'm gonna but what I saw is the director like owning her script and figuring out like she took it. It's really sad I couldn't feel I really wanted to see her.

SPEAKER_02 30:31

Yeah. Um I think you know, I I just want to say to that, it was hard to not be like, I'm just gonna rewrite this. Yeah. I mean, for sure, you know, but I think in in reading her script, you know, I kept talking about the I think it was Michelangelo's like, I'm just gonna set the the sculpture free from the marble. Yes. I could see what was it was as you guys saw when you decided to produce this. I could see what was there. I'm like, you just gotta clean up your language and and and get more direct and and it's all there. And you know, there were certainly like I made suggestions, but they were also like as example, you know, rather than I'm gonna, you know, instead of having all of this text, like think about the words you're using and using active voice, active voice is the big thing for all of you screenwriters out there, yes, active voice starting to beginning to sits down.

SPEAKER_03 31:32

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Actually sits. All writers in general. Passive voice is bad. Yep. Always use active voice.

SPEAKER_02 31:39

Bad, bad. Bad, bad.

unknown 31:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 31:41

Um, but anyway, and I'm not trying to because it was, it was just, it was there, and it was um wonderful to see how invested she was in her own script. Because sometimes, and I'm guilty of this, it's like someone starts telling you under wanting to help you make your script better, but it's still like, oh my God, I suck. Why did I even do this? This is a terrible script. They know so much more than me. I'm never gonna succeed. And this is my own brain. Yeah, you know, instead of like, oh wow, that you know, and I think part of that's youth, like I know I still need to learn, but she she engaged with it, she didn't space out, she didn't get defensive, yeah, you know, and I and and it's it's hard to hear no matter how eager you are, yeah, because you want you you know you have a good idea, you think it's good, yeah, you want to put it out there. And it was really wonderful to have her to to engage with her. And I think given just the world we live in and how people's times, that that even teacher, you know, her professors and stuff didn't have two hours to hang out with her one morning on a Zoom and go page by page. Yeah, yeah, you know, and I did because I need a job. So but it was, you know, and and I think that's really uh the key is to actually engage. Yeah. And and you know, because I started I was really I really cared about Miles and I wanted I wanted Miles' journey to be clear, and I wanted to do what I could to help her get Miles clear. Yeah, and you did, and I hope that he was in performance. I can't wait to see that.

SPEAKER_03 33:20

Yeah, yeah. The good the Gio is great. Gio was great. He's he's a good actor, I think. Yeah, um, and yeah, no, yeah, but it was evident in reading it because I've read scripts where students get help, and it's like it's not their voice anymore. Yes, yeah, yeah. Right.

SPEAKER_01 33:36

And that's so important because to your, you know, to your point, and I'm going through the same thing with my advisor in grad school. I I had to, you know, submit some stuff, and and instead of saying, I don't like that, I don't like this, it was more like you know, it was asking questions for me to ask myself to think about what I wanted to do. Right. Right. And so I'm I'm writing, Do you remember me now as a feature? And you know, her first question was, how important is it that this stay a hundred percent true to your story? And I didn't think about that. I was so busy about getting all the details, my childhood, my this, my that. And then I realized, wait, I can do whatever I want to do. And I remember calling Rochelle, and I was just like, I can't wait till you get over here. This is what we're gonna do, and we're gonna put on um a hat. She's gonna be a vigilance and she's gonna shoot up a whole like it was like everything, I could do whatever I want, and that was so freeing. It was so freeing, and it wasn't her saying, I don't like this, or change that, or I don't think that's gonna work. It was being able to ask the question that allowed the writer to then go back and give that writer the freedom to be able to create. Right. And and that's such a powerful thing for writers. Yeah, yeah. Good job. Thanks. Yeah, it's my pleasure. Yeah, it was fun. It was that was that was great. Yeah. Um, so we forgot about 2D, but anyway, like what what is it that you're working on? Never forget about 2D. Yeah, all of us case free in my head. For real.

SPEAKER_03 35:23

Like I was. With all the fan fiction you've been writing.

SPEAKER_01 35:26

Shh no one knows about um like what what are you what are you hoping to do now? Like, what are you working on now? What are you hoping to do now? Um, so I have a screenplay.

SPEAKER_02 35:40

Yay! Um I I have a couple things. I I have I wrote a spoof of a lifetime Christmas or a Hallmark Christmas movie. Thank you. Thank you for that. Yeah, thank you. I and I'm working with a producer in New York, and we're just trying to find some seed money so we can hire a casting director. Yeah. Because we, you know, we have celebrity, famous people in mind that and just the the thing with Christmas movies is that they're cheap to make and they usually turn a profit. And they're fun. No one's gonna win any Oscars, right? You know. Um but everyone will have a good time, right? And they sell internationally and they, you know, and they have long shelf life. And so that's been uh going on for a while because this is a very long process, as you know. You know, it placed, I got like some quarterfinalists and some contests. That's a whole other thing we should do a podcast about is contests and how we feel about them. Oh, wow.

SPEAKER_03 36:43

Give a tease. What do you think about that? I think they're a scam. Uh so do I. Students will come to me and say, Oh, there's this writing competition, should I? And it's like, what do you get anything?

SPEAKER_02 36:53

Or is it just and there's some, you know, it's a it's a whole big conversation. Because even the nickel fellowship has been sold now. Like it's not, I mean, it's it's not quite. Yeah, I forgot. Because everything combined, all of the, you know, um, I can't even think of many because I haven't done like Scriptopalooza and Final Draft and all of them have sort of conglomerated. Oh. And now you have these sites like Coverfly. Yes, yeah. You know, I mean, I was on the red list on Coverfly. Wow. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, yeah. Um, so I'm trying to I'm trying to get this movie made. Cool. Um I have a stage play that I would love to get workshopped, which is um actually less funny. Takes kind of a dark turn in the second act, um, but it's it starts as a farce and it ends kind of dark. Um and that takes place during the America's Bicentennial. Of 1976.

SPEAKER_03 37:56

Um I remember that.

SPEAKER_02 37:58

Yeah, exactly. So um those are probably, and I'm embarking on a writing project with um, I'm taking starting this class, and I don't really know where that's gonna go, if that's gonna be memoir, if that's gonna be essays, because the my problem is discipline is sitting down and really turning off all the distractions and getting it done. Because the part of me that has worked in studio television, has worked in improv, is the the process between thinking of it and performing in it is very short.

SPEAKER_01 38:38

Yes, yeah, it's immediate.

SPEAKER_02 38:39

Yeah, yeah, and the idea of like sitting down and honing and honing and honing is yeah, you know, like once they leave the head, like you know, and so it's it's a weird, it's a weird process for me at this stage in my life. Yeah, you know, and directing live news is um stressful.

SPEAKER_03 39:00

Yeah, it's very stressful. I imagine it is. You can't really, you know, fuck up like I do all the time, right? That would be bad. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 39:10

Only on Tuesdays and Thursdays. Um well, you know, I I think that the conversation about these awards are important, and um and I and I think that that is a conversation that we should have. Um but I'm I also you know I I want to I think it's important that people feel good about recognition because I I think that is a positive space with people. Um, but to be cautious of what it is you're being and how you're being recognized, I think is very important. Well and how much money they're asking for. Yeah, right.

SPEAKER_03 39:52

Like the if there's these exorbitant fees, yeah, like$499.

SPEAKER_01 39:59

Yeah, yeah. Like, no, no, no, no. Yeah, it's it's the I'm gonna burn all my writing awards after we're done with this.

SPEAKER_02 40:07

No, no, no. No, just all of them. Well, you know, and it's the same thing with everybody has a film festival now. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And the cost for entering those isn't cheap either. No, it's not. And what do you really get from it? Right. You know, and and to to say that there are some contests that are absolutely worthwhile.

SPEAKER_01 40:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 40:25

Um, I mean, I I got a friend, they have a great pilot, TV pilot. That I've I've met them, I met these dudes in 2012, and they still have this pilot. And they have won so many awards at so many small. Yeah, and that's great.

SPEAKER_03 40:47

Yeah, but nobody picks a couple of things.

SPEAKER_02 40:50

And yeah, you know, so is that a mean, is that an end unto itself? And maybe it is. Right, you know, yeah, it's hard to say.

SPEAKER_01 40:58

FYI, if you use Film Freeway, look for film festivals that are Oscar or BAFTA qualifying. That's what you want, period. But they're expensive. Yes, they're expensive.

SPEAKER_02 41:12

And for screenwriting competitions, really look at the prizes. But the thing is, the the odds, the odds are against you. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 41:21

And this is a pause for hair.

SPEAKER_02 41:27

Yeah, I'm sorry. Pause for hair. I'm getting my hair cut tomorrow. This is time to happen. The costs of attending festivals, traveling, accommodations, and if you being annoyed. If you are not an extrovert and a schmoozer, not either of those two. We're working on that. And you know what? This is going to surprise you. I am not.

SPEAKER_03 41:53

It doesn't surprise me. I'm not either.

SPEAKER_02 41:55

If I'm in a room with y'all, you know, I mean, we grew up together. But like in a go to a like go to a panel, yeah, you know, and watch a panel and then like try to work the room. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 42:11

We're gonna we're gonna do a class. You should teach you all how to work a room.

SPEAKER_02 42:16

I I don't I can't do it. And it's so then you've like paid all this money to get to this festival. Yeah, and if it and I'm not judging anybody here, you know, it's just the reality is like you have to work the room. You have to you can't we can't do this in a vacuum, and that's the hardest part, especially on the on the writing side when you're like, I just want to be in my pajamas, like jamming to the concert in my head right now. Yeah, yeah, and getting it, getting that funding, getting to that, that's a whole other skill set. And if you're making this huge investment, and if you don't place, because if you place at least someone's gonna pay attention to you. You know, my writing partner, I have a writing partner in New York, and we wrote a an awesome TV pilot called Kitty Stardust in the Corner Store. And it was about a retired stripper who comes back to her Puritan New England home to take over her parents' storefront.

SPEAKER_03 43:18

Look, Peggy's laughing. Peggy's laughing. It's this is a good one. It's it's hilarious. It's golden.

SPEAKER_02 43:24

It's just so good. It's so good. And we got and can I can I plug.

SPEAKER_01 43:29

Can I live in your head just for like a week? I just want to live in there. I just want a vacation there for like a week. Here's what you hear.

SPEAKER_02 43:38

What can we eat now? What can we eat now? I have chips. Do I want chips or do I want Doritos? Maybe some flaming hot Cheetos. Maybe I can put them all in a bowl with some ice cream. That's what you'll hear. Um, if I can plug, I will plug one and feel free to cut it out. Plug as much as you want. Um the Sinestoria organization is based in California. And it is not cheap. But if you if you have to place a semi semifinalist or above and they break it down comedy drama, I think they do sci-fi now. So that if you place they have they hold a um a workshop every year. And they do it for film and they do it for TV. And they have all these amazing mentors who come. And you know, we did get a meeting out of it. The meeting didn't go anywhere, but we had, you know, that's cool. I I've still, you know, made some contacts that are lovely humans and um and some create met some creative equals who, you know, just are writing really cool stuff and like being able to exchange stuff with them and see what they're up to is really cool. Um it's one of the few worthwhile, I think. You know, because it's not a film festival, it's about the writers. And so it's just we, you know, and they have a very discerning people of people that read. And stuff goes through, you know, multiple reads before it gets and advances. And the workshop, you know, retreat is it's a couple of days in Idlewell, California. And I don't know. It's it's it's a blast. It's like you get to do pitch sessions, you got we got to work like in a comedy room, like because they have people who are showrunners, yeah. And it's like, okay, we're gonna do an episode of Friends. Yeah, you know, like I hate friends, but okay. You know, and I remember one person saying, you know, if you pitch a joke and I don't write it down, and you pitch it again and I don't write it down, I'm not taking your joke. Like, stop saying it and move on. But like it was so cool to experience that and you know, unfortunately that did not take off. But if anybody would like to make my sitcom, very, very reasonably done, and it can be shot right here in New England. Even better. It's a great little we have a Bible, we did everything.

SPEAKER_03 46:00

Wow.

SPEAKER_02 46:01

I mean, we went whole hog.

SPEAKER_03 46:04

But you know, it's a it's a rotten business. It is, it's really hard. It's always like, why do you want to do this? It's terrible.

SPEAKER_02 46:11

It's like being an astronaut. I mean, how many people actually get to go to the moon? Right, right. Besides the couple who should stay there. But but you know what I mean? It's like even if you get to NASA, are you gonna get to the like I want to go to the moon? That's the thing I want to do. How many people have been to the moon? Not that many. Yeah. Yeah. Until we colonize. But yeah, but seriously, like that's that's how it feels sometimes in this industry. And it's hard. And it doesn't matter how talented you are sometimes. And that's that's the hardest lesson, I think.

SPEAKER_01 46:43

Well, on that sunshine, we are uh can't we be more positive?

SPEAKER_03 46:50

Can we get it? Can we just like yeah, tootie? Tootie.

SPEAKER_01 46:55

Um you take the good, you take the bad, you take the middle, and there you have the Charlotte Gray invitation for you. Um, Eileen, thank you. Really, we're gonna end on that sad, sad note.

SPEAKER_03 47:10

We are like, yeah, we get no. Yeah, no, that's I think it's give me something else. No. Give me some love. I refuse to end. Me too. I'm gonna keep on talking. You wanted to live in here? Yeah. Welcome. Yeah, welcome. Yeah, but you have you have fun, right? You seem like you have fun.

SPEAKER_02 47:26

Here's the thing. I still I haven't stopped. Right. Yeah, you know, and it's it's because the voices need to be heard. Yeah. And whether it I do it myself or you know, they live in my head. Yeah, but they're they're there and they want to come out and I have no choice. To set them free.

SPEAKER_03 47:48

Yeah, and that that's an awesome thing. Yeah, and and it takes dedication and it takes luck and it takes I mean, I think every other country supports the artists, whereas uh we live in a country that does not hates artists. Yeah, yeah. That's a much better note. So much better fascism, yeah. Well, welcome to the fascism, not just for breakfasting. Do something quick, folks. Right? Yeah, oh my god, and now I'm depressed. No, no, don't do don't be depressed.

SPEAKER_01 48:24

Oh no, no, no, because you know what, at the end of the day, um for me, writing is like breathing. Right. And if I continue to write, I know I'm continuing to breathe. That means I'm continuing to create, which means I'm continuing to sit with amazing people like you all and just do what I want to do. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 48:49

So I warned you by comedy turns dark.

SPEAKER_03 48:58

Yes. All right. Is is is that racist to call comedy dark? Or back to Tootie. I'm sorry. It all comes back to it does all come back to Tootie, because I feel like they didn't treat her right. They didn't. Well, they did.

SPEAKER_01 49:12

It was a 1980s sitcom. You want to talk about good times? You thought that was good?

SPEAKER_03 49:17

No, I didn't. I'm just I'm very bothered by what they did to Tootie. I just I'm like that.

SPEAKER_01 49:22

I just you should be more upset with friends who never had a black kid.

SPEAKER_03 49:26

Oh my god, there are no black people in the world of friends, especially, especially in New York. I know, right? Especially in New York. It was just like girls. Like, did that did you ever watch girls? No. Oh my god, like not a single, like, and then she responds to the criticism by having a black boyfriend and then making a completely inappropriate statement to him. And yeah, oh well, anyway, no one watched girls, so as a kid, when good times was on, the thing I could not understand was Florida Evans was Maud Finley's housekeeper.

SPEAKER_01 50:03

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 50:04

In um um New York. Yeah, uh Tuckahoe. Tuckahoe, New York.

SPEAKER_01 50:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 50:10

Wow, how do you freaking remember that? Because I love TV. I love TV. So Westchester County. Yeah. Why did she move to Chicago? Yeah. And it was kind of like even as a kid.

SPEAKER_01 50:27

How did she get there? How why would she have a voard to move? How could she afford the plane ticket?

SPEAKER_02 50:34

But but why would she afford it?

SPEAKER_01 50:35

That's where she was from. From but it's analyzed this a little bit.

SPEAKER_02 50:40

It never made sense to my little 10-year-old brain why someone had a job in the suburbs that really wasn't that hard. Right. You know, working for a crazy white lady. Apparently, was Maud Finley was based on Norman Lear's ex-wife. I've heard that somewhere. I've heard that as well. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 51:00

Interesting.

SPEAKER_02 51:01

But why would she go from the suburbs? Because I just assumed she also lived there, which was probably my mistake, to the projects. It like never, it just didn't like I because I was a child, I don't understand it was about the carry. But anyway, the logic to that never like it made sense when the Jeffersons left Queens and they moved on up to the East Side. Yeah, yeah. They were moving on to the East Side. To the Deluxe apartment in the sky.

SPEAKER_01 51:34

So true and that the greatest Sherman event.

SPEAKER_02 51:41

The greatest theme sum of all time, indeed. Sure, like Sherman. Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_03 51:51

There we go. Oh my goodness. You gotta come back because we've got we've got so many more shicks to do. We really haven't explored Tootie enough still. I'm still gonna go back to Tootie. This is gonna be the longest podcast ever. It is. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I have a lot to do. Facts about two.

SPEAKER_01 52:12

Wait, is Tootie upset because I of course okay? I didn't know a new sitcom on um Netflix. Kip Fields has been, she has not stopped working.

SPEAKER_03 52:21

She was like she was on single living, right? Or something like that single single Living Single. There we go.

SPEAKER_02 52:27

She was like an executive producer at Nickelodeon for a while. Oh really? Yeah, oh go girl.

SPEAKER_03 52:31

Okay, nice Tootie.

SPEAKER_01 52:33

Yeah, I love that.

SPEAKER_03 52:34

Tootie's made it.

SPEAKER_01 52:35

Tootie made it is for the rest of them, but whatever.

SPEAKER_03 52:42

I think so. Joe did a couple of really bad movies, yeah. And Blair became a little where is Joe?

SPEAKER_01 52:49

I don't know. Is Joe dead? Can you we Google that? Google if Joe Nancy McKeon. Nancy McKeon.

SPEAKER_03 52:55

Oh, and she had a brother too. Yeah. He was the son on Alice. Yes, that's right.

SPEAKER_02 53:02

Tommy.

SPEAKER_03 53:04

I told you. You know TV. I know that era very, very well.

SPEAKER_02 53:07

It was I'm Gen X. That was my babysitter. Yeah. No, I mean a Brady Bunch after school, man. Come on. Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 53:16

Another one without any black people. No.

SPEAKER_03 53:19

Oh no, no. You don't remember. There was a friend, a couple that adopted two children, and one of the children was black and one was white. On the Brady Bunch? No. Yes. On the Brady Bunch? Hold up, people. Let me let me break this down for you. Okay. Here's what happened. So they're really excited they adopted these kids, and then the kids overhear them talking, and they're talking about how they're worried about how people might treat the black boy, and they only overhear the part that's you know that makes it sound like they're saying they don't want to have a black child, and so the boys run away to the Brady Bunch's backyard.

SPEAKER_01 53:59

And they shoot the black.

unknown 54:01

Nope.

SPEAKER_03 54:03

That's it. That's stand your ground, Mike Brady. Mike Brady shows up with a shot. I can't I can't be dead. You can't be black.

SPEAKER_02 54:13

I'm sorry, Robert Reed. I'm so sorry.

SPEAKER_01 54:16

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